Based on the way he’s bungled the native gaming dispute, dropped an egg on the state rebrand, and, in general, led from behind as a tone-deaf, semi-obstructionist when it came to dealing with the Coronavirus, it’s safe to say Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt has received and followed some pretty terrible advice since becoming governor.
Not surprisingly, these advisors are now pondering another bad idea – kicking Oklahomans off pandemic-related unemployment benefits.
Yep, that’s right! In a meeting first reported by Dylan Goforth with The Frontier, The Governor’s Council for Workforce and Economic Development recently discussed all the fun, silly ways they could prevent Oklahomans from collecting federal unemployment benefits, and force them into low-paying jobs in the private sector.
It’s a short-sighted, ill-advised and generally idiotic thing to do — and something that a “businessman” like Kevin Stitt would likely consider.
Via The Frontier:
As the state begins to open up its economy next month, it could look to cancel the federal $600 per week unemployment stimulus payments to force Oklahomans back to work.
Those payments are part of Congress’ $2.2 trillion dollar CARES relief package that helps address the economic ravaging by the coronavirus pandemic. The $600 payments do not replace existing state benefits, but rather stack on top.
Discussion about asking the federal government to cancel those payments took place on Friday during the Governor’s Council for Workforce and Economic Development meeting. As those in the meeting, which took place electronically on Zoom, were discussing getting people back to work in May, Don Morris, the executive director of Workforce Development, mentioned the “disincentive effect” that the $600 federal unemployment stimulus may have.
Yep, that’s right! Someone in Stitt’s administration talked about the “disincentive effect” of getting people back to work during the pandemic, and they weren’t referring to the threat and fear of a virus that his killed more Americans than the Vietnam War. Sadly, that’s not surprising at all.
Here’s more:
Teresa Keller, the deputy director at the Oklahoma Employment Security Commission, said one option would be to ask the federal government to stop those payments to Oklahoma.
“We can request with 30 days notice that those be terminated for Oklahoma,” she said, noting that she “didn’t know” if that was a tact Oklahoma “would want to do.”
Unless otherwise stopped, the $600 weekly federal unemployment payments will continue until July 31, she said.
Wow. Even by backwards, draconian, Oklahoma policy standards, that’s pretty brutal. I’m sure Stitt would love making that phone call to the White House.
“Hi, Mr President. This is Kevin Stitt, Governor of the Great State of Oklahoma. I’d like to formally request that you stop issuing federal unemployment payments to Oklahomans. Sure, these payments are helping prop up our failing economy during these perilous times, but I would rather force Oklahomans back into lower paying jobs that help enrich their employers,”
“I like the way you think, Kevin! Tremendous idea. Anything else?!”
“We’d also like to order some Clorox, Fantastic and 409 to give to our Covid-19 patients and first responders in Oklahoma hospitals. The Chloroquine stuff you suggested we buy hasn’t worked like it should.”
Here’s more from the article:
Chad Mariska, the president and CEO of APS FireCo, had asked during the meeting if there was no way to reduce the federal unemployment numbers, could Oklahoma quickly reduce its unemployment benefits in order to spur people back to work.
“It would seem like the federal (unemployment payment) is fixed, but is there a way to move the fix so it doesn’t create a disincentive to work?” he asked. “It seems like we’re going to have a stick here pretty soon to say you must come back to work, but it would be nice to get rid of the carrot maybe as well.”
Granted, I’m not the esteemed CEO of a fire prevention company that’s looking for ways to force Oklahomans back to work as a contagious virus threatens their livelihood, but I’m not sure I understand that analogy. That makes as much sense as Homeland’s old “Where the Carrots Are” marketing campaign.
Keller replied that states were not allowed to reduce their unemployment benefit wage amount, but that the federal money could be halted. She also said that employers need to contact the OESC so unemployment payments can be pulled from someone who doesn’t want to work because they’re making more on unemployment.
“If there’s a claimant who says ‘You know, I can make more at home drawing this extra $600 and some other benefits,’ then if the employer will contact us, that is considered a refusal of suitable work and we will cut off their benefits,” Keller said.
“I know that’s been a concern. When I first saw (how much unemployed Oklahomans were making) I thought jeez, some of these claimants will be making more money on unemployment than they did while they were working,” Keller said. “So if you hear from any employers that ‘Gee, I can’t get these people to come back to work,’ then they need to let us know.”
I have an idea. Maybe instead of devising ways to kick people off unemployment, employers can pay a fair wage and provide an real incentive to return to work. Obviously someone spoke up in the meeting and said that, right?
“That’s the best news I’ve heard all day,” replied Sean Kouplen, Oklahoma’s Secretary of Commerce and Workforce Development. “That has been super concerning to me and I’m so glad to hear that … I’ve got companies (saying) we’re trying to hire people back and they’re saying ‘Nope, we’re good, we’re making plenty of money on the unemployment piece.’”
Okay, maybe not.
Anyway, you can read the full report over at The Frontier. Also, if you’re currently on unemployment, and your employer is demanding you return to work for less than you get in federal unemployment benefits, shoot us an email. We’d love to highlight some of these pro-business, pro-people companies!
Legally, if you turn down “equivalent work” then you’re not eligible for unemployment and if an employer has an employee who refuses to work, then they can contact the state and report that. That’s why I think opening up so early is really meant to start kicking people off of unemployment and stop businesses from applying for assistance.
Trying to shut down the extra federal payments is monumentally stupid, and under a more competitive state would be political suicide.
What is monumentally stupid is incentivizing staying on the dole rather than working. The work search requirement has been waved, so some quick math here. The max state unemployment benefit is $520.00/week. Now throw on a $600.00/week federal kicker = $1,120.00/week, which would come out to a $52,800.00/yr rate. The avg income in Oklahoma is $51,924.00. So you could draw unemployment and make more than the average, working Oklahoman, until the fed benefit runs out. During the senate debate, when a couple of senators pointed out that instead of providing unemployment relief up to a workers original salary, this situation was possible, the Dem’s blocked any revision. Govt stupidity at it’s finest.
Agreed. This is asinine. This average is a lot more than I make working everyday. That’s messed up. Good luck trying to get people back to work!
Teresa –
People on unemployment aren’t as shiftless as you imagine. They have plenty of incentive to go back to work at their previous rate, even if unemployment pays more in the short run.
The incentive is that when the unemployment pay ends, their old job will likely have been taken by someone else. Good luck finding a different job, competing with the hordes of other unemployed people.
If that kicker didn’t have an expiration date and this virus was behind us, then sure, I’d think you were right.
But we’re in the middle of a pandemic with a virus that has a pretty bad death rate in the state. The virus has decimated a lot of industries that hired a lot of workers.
Do you think Gov. Stitt can bang a gavel and instantly all those jobs are restored? Of course not. I’d wager that, by the time the federal boost expires, our economy will still be trying to recover from this. So having this conversation about cutting off these benefits is monumentally stupid. We have no idea if the economy is even close to beginning to support those who are unemployed getting back to work and no amount of prayers or gubernatorial decrees will change that fact. And if you cut off all those benefits and those jobs aren’t actually available, guess what? Oklahoma gets to be Detroit 2.0 when we have a massive wave of foreclosures because we don’t have jobs for everyone who had to file for unemployment.
Like I said, if an employer really offers an employee a job and they say no, they’d rather have unemployment, then that employer can inform the state and that employees benefits can be denied, or the employee can be forced to pay them back with a penalty. And I don’t know of an employer that wouldn’t do that, seeing as they have to pay for unemployment benefits for the employee.
Government stupidity was allowing a loophole that allowed publicly traded companies to get the payroll protection loans. This was a one size fits all plan that just happens to benefit some Oklahomans more because we have lower average wages than other parts of the countries.
I get what you’re saying. I really do.
And that’s the big picture of it.
All I’m saying is, you know as well as I do that there will be people that take advantage. Just like some that are on welfare. Its just unfair to the hard working folks that don’t ask for a dime. I know not everybody falls into that category.
That’s all I meant.
The fear that a relatively few people will take unfair advantage of an otherwise good program isn’t a good argument against the otherwise good program.
A few? LOL! You don’t know that. And YOU don’t get to decide it its a good argument or not. Nice try! LOL!!
Wow Teresa, you actually seemed reasonable for a second there, then took a hard turn into idiotville. So much so that I wonder if someone hijacked your user name to make you look stupid.
The fact is, when the economy gets on track, then all the complaints about it become moot. Any employee that refuses to return to their employer can be on the hook for what they got and then some. Unemployment is an incredibly hard system to game by design, and I’m not for torching it for the 95% of people who need it for the 5% that want to try.
If they try to force things by making the call to try to stop benefits, it’ll cause a lot of homelessness. The stay at home orders and the government incentives didn’t hurt the economy, the virus did, and that’s not going away just because someone with no knowledge in running a government wants it to.
I would also just add that I work in healthcare and am an essential employee. I work with a lot of people who would be vulnerable. I have taken a big financial hit due to this virus and I would love for it to be over.
I don’t want to be exposed and spread it to my family or the people I work with just because we were all in a huge rush to open up because of the economy, or because some dark money funded conspiracy theorists convinced of bunch of gullible people that this isn’t a serious virus and the flu is worse and it’s all a democrat plot and all the other nonsense we’re getting right now. I want people to be safe, first and foremost. And I’m glad if my tax dollars that I still pay can go towards supporting that.
I never said it needs to be torched. I’m merely saying its a broken system. Been that way for years.
Unemployment is a notoriously difficult system to game. Unless someone somehow wins the lottery with their unemployment checks, no one is getting rich off unemployment benefits. If there are people who are able to abuse the system, they’re getting a fraction of those in the upper tax brackets who have gamed the tax system to avoid paying what they owe.
Under normal circumstances you’d be correct. If we offered an employee their job and they said they’d rather collect unemployment, we could report them, but the State has waived the work search requirement for the time being. I believe you can also quit your job and claim that it’s too hazardous for you to go to work, and this is self verified. They can take the 10 weeks of fed $ and ride it out. Who knows what will happen to the work search requirement at the end of that period. (although my guess is that, in Oklahoma, it will be reinstated)
If the program came out and the federal kicker was applied up to $600.00/week and designed to keep workers checks whole, well, it wouldn’t be my 1st choice, but for lack of any better idea, I’d probably support it. The program, as written, allows claimants to receive more $ for siting home rather than working. One thing I do know about human nature, the VAST majority of people will gravitate toward the greatest reward for the least amount of effort, and a virus isn’t going to change that.
I too, work in healthcare and our business is off about 80%. We received a PPP loan and this will keep our employees on payroll and whole through July. This comes at no benefit to ownership (other than being able to keep our employees paid without having to furlough). Even though ownership may take a salary, this salary was kicked out of the formula used to calculate how much was received. Our part timers were also kicked out of the calculation, but we’ve gone ahead and kept them paid. Just because a company is publicly traded doesn’t mean they don’t need assistance in doing the same. Many companies aren’t sitting on large piles of cash. I would agree that there has to be oversight to ensure that the $ doesn’t go to stock buybacks and other financial maneuverings intended to boost executive bonuses.
I was under the impression that even if the work search requirement was lifted, the non-voluntary departure requirement wasn’t. So that if someone was furloughed and their job was offered back, then they would no longer be involuntarily unemployed, and they would become ineligible for benefits if they refused and their employer reported that to the state (and I think employers should report it to the state).
However, that was just my understanding, so if that’s not true, then that could be an oversight that should be addressed. But I don’t believe turning down the federal boost does anyone any good right now.
My distaste with publicly traded companies taking the PPP has a lot to do with the fact that it was always destined to come in the way of companies with far fewer earnings from being able to get the loans, when the larger companies are far, far better able to weather the storm and come up with funds for their employees.
vonHugenstein –
1) Why are you giving yearly incomes? The extra $600 lasts from April – July. After that if people are still on unemployment, they will go back to receiving less than half of their regular weekly income. God forbid the low-wage working families who need it the most get some extra money for 3 WHOLE MONTHS DURING A PANDEMIC. Seriously, you’re whining about 3 months?! What do you do for a living?
2) A $600 flat amount was the simplest and quickest way. State programs are already crashing just from the amount of new claims. Self-employed and IC’s can’t even officially APPLY yet. If OESC had to reprogram it’s entire system based on each individuals income instead of the flat $600 God only knows how long it would take Oklahomans to get paid.
3) Your math sucks.
Oklahoma’s average replacement ratio for unemployment benefits amounts to 45% of a person’s usual weekly wage. So if someone is receiving the maximum $520, their usual wage is $1155 per week.
Weekly income from job = $1155
Weekly benefit from unemployment = $520
Weekly benefit ($520) + $600 = $1120
You picked an example where a person would still be making LESS on unemployment WITH the extra $600. And keep in mind, that’s only from April – July.
Also, anyone who gets laid off and refuses to come back to work because they’d rather “stay on the dole” will have their claim denied and probably be charged with fraud. The DOL has emphasized this in their advisory letters.
So honestly, wtf are you whining about? Why do you not want poor, working families to receive 3 measly months of an actual, life-sustaining wage during a deadly pandemic? What harm does this do to you?
right on! LG too many a holes on here that coment on EVERYTHING and they presume to speak for us all !! then the biggest a hole patrick edits the comments so that these same guys post over and over this post has lost its credibility!
The extra $600 is only available for a MAX of 13 weeks. There are some of us that are self employed independent contractors that, before this pandemic, made much more than the max UI benefits allowed even with the extra $600 a week and we can NOT go back to work yet. Believe me, I’d rather be working and earning my usual pay. I’ve been self employed for 20 years and have never taken a handout from anyone. Our governor is a MORON.
If people can’t stay on unemployment for a year, it’s not relevant what the annual rate would be.
K –
I think a simpler explanation is that Stitt and his cronies want to ease the economic suffering of “job creators.”
They really don’t give a rip about workers OR about government finances. The same is true of many pols at the federal level.
Kevin Stitt is a brainless figure head. He obviously lacks the mental capacity it takes to govern the state, and he lacks a sense of compassion. In my humble opinion he is nothing more than a “get-rich-quick-schemer”. He will do exactly what his brainless advisors suggest and be damned with what the folks who voted him into office want or need for that matter. I am disgusted with him and I pray that he is replaced by someone with a mustard seeds worth of sense.
Oh, for God’s sake.
Some conservatives are driven to madness by the very idea of needy people receiving ANY benefits from ANY level of government. Medicaid, Medicare, SNAP (Food Stamps), unemployment benefits…
It’s all SOCIALISM! Ronald Reagan knew that way back in the 1960s when he was a spokesman against Medicare, and the opposing party ranted about the same things in the 1930s when FDR was trying to get America through the Great Depression.
In spite of paying sales taxes, auto taxes, gasoline taxes, property taxes, Social Security taxes (if they have jobs), and more taxes that I’m probably forgetting, those people are TAKERS if they don’t pay INCOME taxes. Mitt Romney will tell you all about it.
Our economy will crumble and fall apart if there aren’t enough poor and desperate people willing to work for “job creators” for less-than-living wages. So they would take away your unemployment benefits if you won’t go back to work in the pork or chicken plant where the deadly virus is spreading like crazy. Do as you’re told, or we’ll treat you worse than unemployed restaurant workers!
They could at least offer hazardous duty pay…
We praise billionaires for taking advantage of the system through bankruptcy laws, and condemn the least of us for taking advantage of unemployment benefits? Seems fair to me.
No wonder we make it difficult to vote.
Very commendable work! I’ve never seen someone else’s work presented to that extent & passed off as your work!
Surely there’s a tweet stream somewhere that’s worthy of such exhaustive effort on your part.
It is close to impossible to comment on a news story without citing the news in question. Here, Patrick names his source — full credit, author and org. — with a handy link. He then typographically distinguishes between his comments and the original story in an obvious manner. And, in case we missed it the first time, he again provides a link to the source. No plagiarism here. No trying to take credit for someone else’s work. News & comment.
Yeah, chris must be new here, this is pretty much the format of almost every article Patrick posts, not plagiarism at all.
I’m alleging laziness, not plagiarism.
Oh, well, that clears it up. Soooo you must be new here, that’s pretty much the format of most of the stuff Patrick posts. 🙂
In what may be the one good thing out of this mess is it allows a clear delineation between Democrats and Republicans. Members of the Grand Old Party see profits before people. Democrats see people before profits. You can split hairs and argue semantics all day but that’s it in a nutshell and anyone who ever says there’s no difference between either party has in injected too much Clorox.
My wife works in a lab that processes paps and tumor slides. Due to the downturn, she’s been using her PDO’s to get off an hour or two early every day because there just isn’t anything to do. We are worried that this will run out soon and we will probably need some assistance. There are many people like us who don’t fall into the “I lost my job due to Covid” camp and are suffering in other ways. None of the government’s answer addressed people using PDO’s to keep their pay the same due to reduced hours.
If those who are out of work receive the extra money from the fed’s, I’m guessing that the vast majority of it is going to be spent and going back into helping the general economy of the state. What businesses wouldn’t love to see that additional money going back into the state. As has been pointed out, if offered a job or to come back to work and the person says they can make more staying at home, then the employer can (and SHOULD) report that person.
What you need to realize is that there’s no free money. All that money coming back into the state will have to come from the taxpayers, either from increased income taxes or increased cost of goods and services when corporate taxes are raised. There’s no free money.
Again, for time being, the work search requirement has been waived.
“At this time the OESC has waived the work search requirement due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Since the required number of work search contacts is zero, individuals should respond “yes” when asked if the required number of work search contacts have been made when filing a weekly claim for benefits.”
Businesses can report employees but currently, nothing is being done.
More likely, it’ll just be deficit spending. Complaining about the deficit isn’t more than a political tool these days (namely when a Democrat is in the white house), and the Republicans who are in power now are about as big government as any Democrat.
And MUCH bigger socialists.
When will we pay back the debt that we ran up during WWII?
Something I read that usually hols true:
The difference between liberals and conservatives: A man is drowning 50 feet from shore. A conservative will throw a life line with 30 feet of rope, requiring the person to help themselves part way. A liberal will throw a life line with 80 feet of rope, leaving the extra 30 feet to be wasted or choked on.
I don’t think that necessarily holds true, there is a lot of variety in the party and even in a general sense if tht was once true the parties have shifted away from it.
Some conservatives would throw 30 feet of rope. Some would throw 50 but make the man buy it from them for doing so. Some would throw no rope and either say it was his fault for drowning in the first place or that their thoughts and prayers are with the drowning man.
Some liberals would throw 80 feet of rope. Some would insist that everyone on the beach be given 40 feet of rope. Some would insist that the beach is too dangerous and should be closed forever because obviously man wasn’t meant to be in water.
And, as always, there are people on both sides that would throw the man exactly what he needed.
Bad analogy, oto.
It’s silly to believe that giving someone more than the bare minimum that they need will lead to them either wasting it or choking on it. Better to throw some extra rope than not enough. Forty nine feet is ALL wasted.
Similarly, dividing the available rope equally is also silly and wasteful. Giving $1,200 to 90% or so of Americans is wasteful because some like me don’t need it, and for others it isn’t nearly enough.
Nice to see all the compassionate conservatives out voicing their heartfelt concern during a pandemic.
Something tells me they could, & you’d never acknowledge it.
I’m 64 and I’m still waiting for the Connies to show desperate people a little love.
Your unnamed source is likely your posterior.
They could, but they don’t.
And if they did, it would be remarkable and well worth acknowledging. It’s always gratifying to see a conservative with actual compassion rather than the campaign-slogan kind.
Since I employ a number of high tech workers, I was on the Dep. of Commerce call Wednesday when this was brought up. Even presented to an audience of like-minded business owners, it came off tone deaf and miserly.
Here’s a thought, maybe Stitt could get the unemployment commission some support so they can pay the gig workers and self-employed the funds approved by Congress almost a month ago, yet the Oklahoma Employment Commission can’t process because they don’t have system or manner to disburse, even though they are receiving the funds. Currently self-employed and gig workers can sign up for a list to be contacted when they can begin the screening process. I can’t imagine what it must be like to be working at the unemployment commission currently, i vision someone trying to empty the flood waters of the titanic with a dixie cup.
So self-employed owners of essential businesses (with no employees) are out of luck other than the stimulus check. However, even being open doesn’t mean there is enough business to keep up. Last week we couldn’t take a draw .
This week, at least 3 customers who needed services told us they had received their unemployment checks and could afford repairs this week. Now, we can afford to pay ourselves this week. It can only help the economy so why whine about people getting more than Repubs think they need.
Over time I have come to conclude that many people cannot abide anyone having more than them. Even a couple of relatives that I love are miserable, unhappy, jealous and unable to acknowledge others’ circumstances. After watching them, I vowed never to think or act like they do.
If we are worried about money, Gov Stitt wasted 2 million dollars purchasing “plaquenil” that is not approved for treatment for the virus. Stitt was bragging about the purchase 3 weeks ago and how he got a head start in Feb grabbing up supply just for Ok citizens.
Sigh…
Sounds like Chad wants to switch to the other “end” and should have said “cattle prod” instead of “stick.” That imagery is terrible, but I’m sure he does not want to waste any carrots.
Here’s an update from Frontier
https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/as-state-reopens-oklahoma-workforce-leaders-discuss-asking-for-end-to-federal-unemployment-payments/
LH,
Um, I’m not stupid, but thanks for playing. And if you think I took a “hard turn”, its because I’m not going to put up with a poster telling me I have “no argument”. Not gonna happen. That poster never respects any body’s opinion that differs from his. So, if you don’t like what I said, just sail on by, Clyde. 🙂
Please Teresa – could you be a little more self righteous ?
yes teresa this ahole grey chin is a guy that trolls this site , and as you can tell he knows every thing! and if you dont agree with him your a idiot!! lol he used to really upset me, then i saw he was just a poor lonely bored man,that you can tell has nothing better to do except make a fool of himself,commenting on every freakin subject!!