On Friday, KWTV Channel 9 “Exclusively” reported that Whole Foods will be opening a location in the OKC metro area within the next 16 months. Not so fast said OKC Biz.
Whole Foods corporate: No plans for Oklahoma City store
Responding to online reports stating Oklahoma City would land a Whole Foods Market, a corporate spokesperson told okc.biz just the opposite.
“We do not have any plans at the moment for a store in Oklahoma City,” Laura Zappi, associate marketing coordinator for Whole Foods Market Southwest, said. “I will … update in case we have any new information in the future.”
I’m having trouble identifying the bigger story here. Is it Channel 9 getting the story wrong, or OKC Biz actually reporting news? Seriously, OKC Biz is a pretty magazine and all that, but it seems like the only “news” it publishes are articles about social media experts and day-in-the-life diaries of people more boring and more self important than you. I’m pretty sure it also publishes one of those “ADVERTISE WITH US!” 40 Under 40 lists.
Anyway, back to Whole Foods. I don’t know what the big deal is about that place. I’m sure it’s nice and everything, but if Tulsa has one, it can’t be too great. What we should really do is focus on bringing a Central Market to Oklahoma City. That place kicks Whole Foods’ ass.
However, none of that is really worth debating. Upscale grocery chains like Whole Foods and Central Market make a large chunk of profits through wine sales. And if you remember correctly, it’s illegal for them to sell wine in Oklahoma, because selling wine at a store where you can also buy oranges, cheese and salmon is immoral and wrong. Since that’s the case, these stores are probably better off expanding in markets where they can sell wine and thus, make more money. And I guess you can’t really blame them for that.
Haha! OKCBiz.. newsbreakers inDEED!
Oh – and Whole Foods can kiss off anyway. Why? See this about the boycott of their far-right wingnut CEO: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=119099537379
The peculiar nature of Oklahoma liquor laws gets even more fun . . . a liquor store cannot sell anything that DOESN’T contain alcohol. So, you want a mixer, well . . .
Eh… As much as “facebook boycotts” are reliable, I’ve actually heard John Mackey talk about the healthcare situation, and he’s developed a pretty good program for his employees. His reforms in the sourced Wall Street Journal argument make sense (especially the one about allowing health insurance companies to compete across state lines).
I recognize that he repeats some of the GOP talking points, most of which I think are bunk, but he’s FAR from a “far-right wingnut CEO”, and it’ll take more than somebody’s facebook group to convince me otherwise. Like maybe a Wikipedia entry.
I agree Central Market kicks booty, however, since it’s an offshoot of HEB grocery stores, and HEBs are exclusive to Texass, it’s probably even less realistic to hope for one of those.
I doubt that OK’s liquor laws are the main reason they may not open a store. If you want to see archaic, go to Pennsylvania where you can’t even buy beer except at a beer store, which cannot sell liquor and you must buy by the case, or at a bar, where you can only buy a 6 pack.
If you want wine, don’t think about going to Trader Joe’s or Whole Foods, both of which have stores in PA, you have to go to the liquor store.
When we lived in St. Louis, we shopped at both Whole Foods and Trader Joe’s, especially to get great microbrews and it was weird to go to one of those stores in PA and not to see the booze, but it does demonstrate that those stores will go to areas with bad laws.
bggjr, please remember that Pennsylvania also has literacy. And Quakers.
Dave, have you actually read John Mackey’s opinion piece in the WSJ? I would hardly call him a “far right wingnut”… He is more of a libertarian than anything…
in case you haven’t read it..here it is:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574342170072865070.html
“Rather than increase government spending and control, we need to address the root causes of poor health. This begins with the realization that every American adult is responsible for his or her own health”
The way for a Whole Foods (or Central Market) to make a thrive is to sell things (like wine) that have a huge profit margin, or sell a lot of things with smaller profit margins. I would say that Pennsylvania (home of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh) has high population density that can make up for the lack of wine sales. Oklahoma City has a more spread out population meaning that we can’t make up for the chain’s inability to sell wine.
Who needs a Whole Foods when we have a Super Cao Nguyen market (http://shrunkin.com/23397/)? I know I know, not quite the same. But seriously though this store is awesome if you haven’t already been there. My wife and I love fresh Asian cuisine (especially home made sushi) and discovered this market a while back. Their prices are super low too. Now if they could sell Saki I’d save a trip to the liquor store.
here’s that link again. This one should work.
http://shrunkin.com/23397/
i dont think the spread out density means anything. there are lots of high-end stores that survive, it just depends on your marketing and your intended audience. look at Apple. they can get people/idiots to drive past 20 Best Buys & Wal-marts just to buy a computer with average hardware for 3 to 5 times as much money. i drank the kool-aid on that deal, and have regretted it since.
and never underestimate the price people will pay just to stay away from Wal-Mart. i will gladly pay 5-10% more just to stay out of Wal-mart, especially if the place is nice and clean.
and OKC seems to have a growing pussified yuppy audience. this group of people has a lot of money, nothing productive to do, and a desperate need to look cool and brag about where they shop, and how they wish that Oklahoma was like [Insert trendy city of the week here]. Whole Foods sounds like the perfect destination for all of their twitter parties. maybe we can send all of the Affliction and Tapout douchebags to Whole Foods on the same day as a yuppy twitter party and get rid of both populations. we could kill 2 birds with one ripe, juicy plumb…
The reason we won’t get a Whole Foods, and this is straight from the Whole Foods horses mouth, is because our demographic is NOT EDUCATED ENOUGH! Their marketing department released that statement two years ago.
It has nothing to do with liquor laws here. We do not have the demographic they are looking for in a customer.
As for Tulsa, Whole Foods bought that company (can’t remember the name) and renamed the store Whole Foods.
Stop the “brain drain” in this city and you’ll get a Whole Foods. But when people like Guy Liebmann make statements like, “teachers have it too good. We should reduce their benefits.” then you will consistently drive out the educated to KC and Dallas.
i have it from a very reliable source Whole Foods is indeed coming — 2011.
They could just put a liquor store in next to the grocery.
I especially like the plastic palm trees at Cao Nguyen.
Yes, the city has a lot of those yuppies–in Edmond, in Nichols Hills, in Moore. All of those people put together probably meets the demographic of Whole Foods, but where can they put a store that utilizes those people who would love to shop there to brag that they shop there?
Tulsa has one, and I’ll stand by my theory because of that. As the Irritated Tulsan demonstrated last week, Tulsa has segregated the haves from the have nots to a point where a high end supermarket could place themselves square in the middle of their target demographic. If the store is in north Tulsa, though, I admit my mistake.
@Soonerken
Now I understand what part of Oklahoma City Saving Grace was taking place.
I agree Clark, there’s quite a bit of snobbery involved with these types of stores. I’m bettin’ you can get fresh produce that’s just as good from the guy on the corner selling it out of the back of his truck, and it’s a whole lot cheaper.
Everyone in OKC should go to Cao Nguyen at least once. I double dog dare anyone to eat some of the stuff they’ve got there.
I agree with Clark (except about Moore…probably more yuppies in Yukon/Piedmont than Moore-birthplace of Toby “where’d I hang my spurs”Keith)
The problem with WholeFoods coming to OKC is where to put the damn thing! The obvious choice is probably Edmond, but then you alienate the huge chunk of your target demographic (the Nichols Hills/Heritage Hills/hip Downtown Lofters) who would rather walk naked through the 89th and Penn WalMart @ 10PM with Cheez Whiz all over their body, than EVER go to Edmond FOR ANYTHING not necessitated by a court order! (I count myself in this contingent)
Go to Edmond for something, Edmond, hmmmmm, radical concept. Nope!
The issue with wine in grocery stores is all about retail package licenses. As I understand it, if you want to sell retail liquor, you can have one licenses as an individual…period. You also can only own a retail license as an individual or a partnership (no corporations or LLC’s). A requirement like that tends to gum up the works.
Compound that with the fact that the liquor store owners are well-organized and donate to campaigns, and you’ll need to see a truly coordinated well-funded effort to get things even around here. Sadly, the liquor store owners just want to protect their turf instead of realizing that a change would allow them to sell more than just liquor as well (and own more than one store).
I will totally spend more money to have healthy food,(the whole reason behind this chain) to be more healthy than what I am now. I will not assume the people that shop at this place are snobs, but simply more health conscience than others. If one of the ancillary benefits is a more pleasent shopping experience so be it. If you want to call me a snob for not wanting to smell the behemoth next to me you can kiss my platinum backside.
@SoonerKen There is some weird law in Oklahoma that liquor stores have to be independent businesses. there may be some ways slightly around it, but it is a rule in the books. this is the reason that you don’t see large liquor store chains, and why all liquor stores are small, mom and pop owned things.
if you put a Whole Foods by Penn Square Mall, you could catch all of the yuppies going to the Apple Store, all of the douchebags leaving Hooters (on NWExp), and all of the rich, non-working divorcees who are leaving 50 Penn Place.
cc: That may very well be true but I’m sure these folks are smart enough to figure a way around it with a straw man or something.
lucid: Thanks for the invitation but I’ll pass. I just didn’t realize that every other store was selling inferior food products and their customers were neanderthals.
@lucid gravity – i agree for the most part. but more than that, i will pay money to not have to go to Wal-mart. shopping at Whole Foods doesn’t make one a yuppie, but it will force you to shop among them, just like shopping at Target. if it means i am a yuppie, douchebag, Edmondite, or whatever derogatory term you can think of, i will gladly become it to get away from the hellhole that is Wal-mart.
and the liquor laws here are weird. i find it odd that you cant buy a lime for your margarita at the same place you buy the tequila. i’m sure the OK liquor stores have a very good lobbying system.
Whether a Whole Foods, Central Market or some other grocer, OKC needs a better grocery option than Wal-Mart, Homeland or Buy4Less. Whoever, whatever, wherever I don’t care, but hopefully sooner than WHENever.
I totally agree with cornercuttin. I am really excited about the possibility of Whole Foods, because I currently drive farther and pay more to avoid Wal-Mart at all costs. Super Target works for me, but it would be nice to have another option.
Isn’t it interesting how people who lay down the anti-Edmond smack are usually a shit-ton douchier than the folks they like to bag on?
well, I’m on the 40 u 40 list, and I advertise with you so there has to be some credibility there right? Maybe you can make your own list, and get some more advertisers, that is, if you’d stop being so conservative and all. That’s it. I’m boycotting!
Perhaps there is a business opportunity in all of this grocery store blah-dee-blah. If people in states without casino gambling will pay good money to get on a bus and ride to Ardmore or Shreveport to lose money, perhaps people in ‘the O-K-C’ would be willing to pay for bus trips to go to Dallas to shop in a Kroger . . .
Yeah. Forget Whole Foods, let’s get a Kroger.
Srsly. The more I go to the Tulsa Whole Foods, the more I miss the Greenville Avenue Whole Foods, I went to in Dallas.
And why does Little Rock have a Container Store and not OKC?
I wish we had a Costco.
Go to Kamp’s!!!
Let’s face it folks . . . in the retail development zone that is America, Oklahoma is still deemed an old, unrenovated K-Mart next to a mall full of sneaker stores and seasonal Wilson Leather stores.
The place to put it would be in the Quail Springs area, between Edmond, Nichols Hills, and North OKC. Moore is still trashy and I seriously doubt there are many true yuppies there.
Oh, and DAVE, you are an idiot. You’ve obviously read nothing true about their CEO’s stance.
OKIELICIOUS you’re right, these doucheriffic Edmond bashers seem a little resentful. Excuse me for wanting to send my kids to one of the best public education systems the state has to offer. More college grads per capita, higher incomes per capita, MUCH lower crime, the list goes on. SO, enjoy living in the Village and sending your kids to NW Classen. My kids will be riding their bikes all around this evening playing with 20 other kids from the neighborhood while your kids are getting scoped out by all four sex offenders living on your block. It’s not about pride or being snobby, it’s simply about a higher quality of living.
Whole Foods can kiss my ass. I’ve been to their store in north Dallas. Since I’m not a dreadlocked hemp sandal-wearing bicycle-riding vegan carrying my own personal mesh shopping bag, there wasn’t anything there I cared to buy. They sell tofurkey bratwurst, for Christ sake!
Actually, I did try to buy a sixpack of Belhaven Scottish Ale (which an OKC store couldn’t sell anyway), but thanks to Texas law, they can’t sell alcohol before noon on Sunday. It was 11:54am and I didn’t want to spend another six minutes in that crappy store so I left it at the checkout counter and walked out.
the farmers market has an awesome selection of produce along with cheeses, yogurt, mushrooms, eggs, pecans, peanuts, apples, beef, pork, chicken, lamb, etc., etc., etc.
my sources tell me the whole foods in okc will be on western — on the nw corner of n. western and classen, east of where classen curves.
would be nice to have trader joes too — all for more grocery choices.
Chesapeake’s Classen Curve is the word on the street for the location. It is new upscale and easy to get to from anywhere.
@Socal, I think you hit the actual solution. If you put it *inside* the Chesapeake campus, they’d never have to leave the Mother Ship.
Oklahoma is ready for an initiative petition to get 6.0 beer and wine in the grocery stores! We just need money, volunteers and many signatures. If we could get this on the ballot in 2012 maybe, we would have decent grocery stores in Oklahoma!
We have been using the excuse that the churches do not want to see a change. I think if people understood that this is more than a liquor law change they may feel different. State politicians need to be willing to step up and take on the process. Really, keeping the law the existing way is about the money! Quite honestly, the whole thing in my mind is a violation of the Anti-Trust Law. The whole thing is an attempt to monopolize the industry. If you tried to open a liquor wholesale business, it would take millions and millions! The Oklahoma wholesalers know this. This is a federal violation of the Anti-Trust Act!
I am probably losing friends as I speak! I know several of the family members who are in this business. I just do not think its fair to the other people in Oklahoma who has to pay the wholesalers 22% markup and shop at shanty grocery stores!
I am just sick and tired of Oklahoma living in the 19th century with the liquor laws. We do not have ONE national chain grocery store- except Target because of the liquor laws. Albertson’s left and sold out to homeland which use to be Safeway, which started here in Oklahoma! Just once, I would love to shop at a Costco, Kroger’s, Whole Foods, City Market anything except Homeland!
Here’s what really stinks, My husband and I use to be in 2 different wine clubs that we joined while out in Napa than the three MAJOR liquor wholesalers here in Oklahoma they filed a lawsuit and got the legislature to change the law so Oklahoma could not receive wine through a wine club. Everything has to be controlled through the wholesalers, which in my mind stinks!
Come on people let’s step out and make something happen. Call your state legislature and complain. Maybe if they get enough phone calls they will be brave enough to take on this issue and set aside their concerns about whether or not they will get a political contribution for the people keeping it back!
O.K. people I have read all the other posts on this site. It’s not about the yuppies or the lack of demographics. It’s plain and simple, it’s an attempt to control our liquor law. Please visit these two sites. Oklahoma is among 15 other states- now only 14 since Delaware just passed this bill.
http://www.doverpost.com/news/x313681196/Bill-would-allow-for-beer-and-wine-in-grocery-stores
Go gogle House Bill 193 and read the actual bill- Why couldn’t Oklahoma take this bill and modify it just a bit to work for Oklahoma and create and Win Win for everyone- including the liquor stores!
Karla: I would encourage such a proposal to be defeated, in its present form. No need to discriminate against whiskey, etc… We should allow that to be sold in grocery stores too. Otherwise, I’m against it.
Karla: While I agree with your psotion and admire your passion, I would also suggest that you take a Ritalin, and focus a little bit.
That would be “position.” If anyone knows what a “psotion” is, email me at ETELIOT@THELOSTOGLE.COM.
i gotta get out this state. no (real – the tulsa one is like a 7 eleven version) whole foods yet, no six point beer, no presidential addresses for public school kids, no wine in grocery stores, no booze on sunday, no no smoking in bars (yay lung cancer!), no trader joe’s… sadness.
Eliot, I appreciate all the comments you have made on this site. I think you are a little too cynical and losing focus of what’s best for the mass majority. Be more reasonable and realisitic when suggesting ideas. I appreciate your creative thinking but focus on a solution that works for everyone and become more passionate about making a difference in our community! Maybe you need an energy drink to fuel your passion and defuse your cynicism?